"No litmus test, but I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is qualified."

Did Obama just predict the death of multiple judges?

Obama seemed thoughtful and genuine about the topic of abortion. McCain kind of treated it like a club to beat Obama over the head with. I'm sorry, I know this'll make some eyes roll, but I resonated a lot more with Obama calling sex sacred and admitting there are good people on both sides of the issue than I did McCain's smug attempt to throw up a disproven story about Obama not wanting to give medical care to babies of botched abortions.

Labels: politics

That's because Obama tells you what you want to hear. His voting record speaks differently than his words that he spoke tonight.  


Hmm. McCain's smug? Why? Because he is passionate about his feelings on abortion? I find it surprising that you're so staunchly against him. His values are clearly in line with a conservative Christian viewpoint. Just because Obama has a plan for reducing unwanted pregnancies doesn't mean that he has an acceptable stance on killing unborn children. I know we won't see eye to eye on this. I'm pained to think that Christians are willing to suspend judgement on certain issues because a candidate is eloquent, or endorsed by famous people, or merely because he's black. Everything that Obama says is based on conjecture and a hope for the future. Unfortunately, all of his eloquence will be for naught if he attains this position and is unable to do anything worthwhile. If he becomes our president, we will become disenchanted very quickly. Liberals will blame the previous administration while they do nothing but pass laws that fly directly in the face of what we believe in as Christians. Spend time truly listening to what Obama says. He's accomplished nothing and is hoping you'll vote for him because you want "something different." We will mortgage our future hoping that his "something different" is worth sacrificing those who are innocent. I'm going to love you no matter who you vote for, but I just want you to be aware that there's a lot more to McCain than you're presenting here, even if he is old. I respect you and your opinion (except in regards to Heroes, of course).  


The reality is they both have litmus tests. McCain came out and said it while with Obama you had to read in between the lines. McCain would most likely only nominate a judge who strictly interprets the Constitution while Obama would most likely only nominate a judge who takes a more constructivist interpretation of the Constitution. If the information McCain stated is correct, I think it is telling about their votes on recent Supreme Court nominees.  


Steve,

No, smug, as I clearly said above, because he furthered misinformation about Obama's voting record.

I'm not against John McCain because of his stance on abortion. I'm not pro-choice and wish Obama wasn't. I'm against John McCain because I think he's wrong-headed on a lot of foreign matters, has admitted to not understanding the economy (and then backed that admission up), made one of the most cynical choices for a vice-presidential running mate that I've ever seen. and has run his campaign in a really un-inspiring and disappointing fashion.

I find myself drawn to Obama because I like his ideas about Afghanistan and Iraq, foreign matters in general, energy independence, a good-deal of the economy, and I'm coming over to his side of the fence on health-care. I disagree with him on the idea abortions should be legal, but respect that he supports a detailed plan to reduce them. By voting for him am I missing a chance to ban abortions? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Maybe if McCain gets elected we'll see Roe vs. Wade reversed sometime in the next four years. Of course if that happens that just means it'll be up to states to decide. And in the cases where states outlaw it, abortions will still take place illegally. So I don't think it's completely out of line with a conservative Christian viewpoint to put the emphasis on changing hearts and minds.

My specific comments about abortion from tonight's debate don't imply that I don't agree with McCain's values. They imply that I think Obama showed a lot more thoughtfulness about the issue. I was ecstatic to hear a politician refer to sex as "sacred."

It is painful to think that some people support Obama because he's eloquent, or famous, or black. It's equally painful to think that some people will vote for McCain because he was a P.O.W., because they think Christians can only vote for Republicans, or because he's not black. Unfortunately all of those things you and I mentioned will happen. You and I will just have to do our best not to be any of those people and not to reduce other people to stereotypes in our minds just because they disagree with us.

I love you too, man. Elections are every four years, but FRIENDS ARE FRIENDS FOREVER! A be-stubbled christian musician taught me that.  


If you compare my debate commentary with my brother Jeff's you really start to see the difference in us.

Jeff = Thoughtful, insightful, fair

Patch = sophomoric, predictable, biased

But I can totally do this trick where it looks like I'm pulling my thumb off as if by magic, so don't feel sorry for me.  


Ok, I have to vent.
McCain has spent his entire career serving his country, and almost lost his life in doing so. And for the record, "community service" and "community organizer" are 2 very different things. Also, I can't understand how Obama could sit in Rev Wright's church for 20 years. This is a man (Wright) who said and I quote
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
He also said that assertion that the US brought 9/11 attacks with it's own terrism. For me, I can not understand why Obama would continue to sit in that church UNLESS HE AGREED W WHAT REV WRIGHT WAS SAYING. For me, this is EXTREMELY important when I am trying to figure out who a canidate REALLY is, because they are not who they want you to believe they are. Would you sit in a church and listen to a man who was saying these things? That is just one of Obama's many poor judgement calls. Think it's really not relative..... really???
Obama is always wanting to go back to the "last 8 years" Oh really? What was Obama doing 8 years ago? Voting "present"?
Also, is it right to "spread the wealth" and take away from people who have earned it? The top 5% already pay 70% of all collected tax dollars. BTW, I think it's a little pathetic that I gave more money away last yr to charity than Joe Biden did.
On the issue of abortion. I believe that LIFE BEGINS at conception. Period. There is no choice, it is murder. Obama can state that he will lower abortions, but I can't help but think that he is saying this to appeal to those voters out there who are pro-life, but it's not the #1 issue to them. For me, I want a president who also believes that Life begins at Conception, and who has voted that way.
McCains Record:
Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006)
Prohibit transporting minors across state lines for abortion. (Jan 2008)

Obama's record:
Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

And I didn't even talk about how I feel about Obama's healthcare crap or tax proposal. Blah! Anyway, with all respect, I felt a need to defend this man who has served our nation, and who has a deep love and respect for it. If Obama shared that same love, would his wife have said at the beginning of the campain "This is the first time I am proud to be an American" ? Is this the couple that you really want to see in the white house?
These of course all all just my thoughts and opinions, and I understand that many of you are dumb and can not see the truth. KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm out- Jess S.
I really am kidding, I have lots of Obama lover friends:)  


Hi Jess!

Is this the first time you've ever commented on my blog? If you're gonna comment when I frustrate you, you also have to comment when I'm just saying run of the mill stupid stuff too! I'm a human being! Not a punching bag!

Yeah, the Wright stuff is one of the things that's given me the biggest pause about Obama. Specifically the fact that he said he was unaware of Wright's views. If he had come out and said he was aware of it, didn't agree with it, but maintained a friendship with Wright and saw the church as part of his interaction with the black community of Chicago I would have felt better about it. Ultimately, I'm guessing that staying there was probably a political move on his part. As was denying any knowledge of Wright's loony behavior.

Wright's comments are pretty despicable. It's not unusual, though, for people to try and attach God's judgement to their frustrations. I know of more than one church here in our state where conservative christian ministers said 9/11 was God's punishment for America's perversion. I even heard a guy in our own church say that God sent Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for their acceptance of Gay lifestyles. I sometimes wonder if the people who get upset about Obama having a friendship with such a man ever consider shunning similar voices in their lives. I know I'm still friends with the guy who made the comment about Katrina. I wonder if that might bite me on the butt if I ran for president? I wonder if it should?

Is it right to spread the wealth? Well, I don't think socialism is the right direction for our country, no. Especially not in the form of a 700 Billion dollar bailout of corporations like we just saw both candidates sign off on. I don't think wealth should be unduly redistributed to the rich or the poor. Neither candidate is really suggesting the kind of tax reform I'd like to see to be honest.

I understand what you're saying about abortion. If you haven't already, you can scroll up and see my response to Steve to get an idea of where I'm coming from.  


Thank goodness this election is almost over...regardless of who you're for, neither of these men are ever going to come remotely close to our lives like the people that are dialogging here.

If only we could routinely get this much passion amongst us about making our country better without the toxin of politics to divide us.....it seems no one is in for a "good fight" unless it's bashing political candidates every four years or up selling your own beliefs.

Who's in for serving at the Men's Hope Center this Saturday morning? :)

Thanks for being brave enough to host the convo's Patch. How many days till November 5th?  


I am the worst blogger ever! I just typed up this reply and then somehow it did not post. Patch, I am coming out of the closet to say that I check your blog every now and then because you are very funny and fun:) But I don't post because I am to lazy and spend most of my pathetic free time on facebook (as we all know). Anyway, My comment was not directed at you personally, and when it comes to politics I get fired up, which is why that was my first post on here. CS- Thanks for mentioning the Hope Center! It's always more fun when you and Cher come! -JS  


Well hell... i said i wasn't going to read anymore of this blog until election was over but had to check if you had anything about the halloween party.

patch quoted "I find myself drawn to Obama because I like his ideas about Afghanistan and Iraq"

but here is my question....have you talked to people personally in the military and who they are voting for. not their family or friends, people who have directly served??? because everyone i know who has served (or is serving) is voting for mccain because of his stance. like someone who is head of security in afghanistan says "if obama is elected...it would have been better for our country to not have entered in this war. we have done too much good. it would be far better for us never to have entered
and would leave that country in worse shape than when we entered. i can't even explain what will happen to that country but devastation" and that is directly from my cousin, head of security in afghanistan.  


You tried to stay away, Erika, but we keep sucking you back in!!!

I don't currently have any friends serving in the military, so I'm afraid I haven't been able to ask any of them who they're voting for.

I know you've really appreciated getting to know your cousin and getting some insight into what his life is like as part of the armed forces. I appreciate his dedication and his family's sacrifice.

Obviously my opinion, informed by reading the news, watching television, listening to talk radio, and doing my own research is easily trumped by the opinion of someone who's in Afghanistan. All you have to say is, "Well, he's been there."

But then earlier this week we saw Colin Powell endorse Obama. He's obviously "been there" on a level that very few folks have.

So I'm left once again, I'm afraid, to forming my opinion by looking at multiple sources, reading, and researching, because you can always find informed opinions that disagree with each other.

I'm curious about your cousin's comments. What country is he talking about? Iraq or Aghanistan?

Also, did he elaborate on how Obama would bring devastation to whichever country he's talking about? I'd be really interested.  


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